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	<title>Comments on: 2008 Election Seat Projection</title>
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	<description>Paul's Socialist Investigations</description>
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		<title>By: Freddy Hutter</title>
		<link>http://paulitics.wordpress.com/poll-index/2008-election-seat-projection/#comment-15223</link>
		<dc:creator>Freddy Hutter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 23:16:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paulitics.wordpress.com/?page_id=902#comment-15223</guid>
		<description>Paul, we&#039;re finalizing the Projection Scoreboard &amp; Commentary.  To clarify your footnotes present and past, did this year&#039;s Geometric Method apply your 5-poll avg within the Antweiler Matrix or the H&amp;K Forecaster?  Also, did you want to attribute any sharing of methoodology with the Arithmetic Method?  Thanx in advance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paul, we&#8217;re finalizing the Projection Scoreboard &amp; Commentary.  To clarify your footnotes present and past, did this year&#8217;s Geometric Method apply your 5-poll avg within the Antweiler Matrix or the H&amp;K Forecaster?  Also, did you want to attribute any sharing of methoodology with the Arithmetic Method?  Thanx in advance.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://paulitics.wordpress.com/poll-index/2008-election-seat-projection/#comment-15221</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 14:20:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paulitics.wordpress.com/?page_id=902#comment-15221</guid>
		<description>Wow!!!!!   Looks like everybody except angus-reid severely underestimated the Conservatives and over-estimated the Lib&#039;s.  It&#039;s great to see that Canadians are discovering the truth about the Liberals and the Greens and voting accordingly.  I hope Rae becomes the next leader of the Lib&#039;s...  he&#039;d be a gift to the Conservatives!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow!!!!!   Looks like everybody except angus-reid severely underestimated the Conservatives and over-estimated the Lib&#8217;s.  It&#8217;s great to see that Canadians are discovering the truth about the Liberals and the Greens and voting accordingly.  I hope Rae becomes the next leader of the Lib&#8217;s&#8230;  he&#8217;d be a gift to the Conservatives!!</p>
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		<title>By: Nick J Boragina</title>
		<link>http://paulitics.wordpress.com/poll-index/2008-election-seat-projection/#comment-15220</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick J Boragina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 23:38:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paulitics.wordpress.com/?page_id=902#comment-15220</guid>
		<description>Please note that I&#039;ve made a very embarrassing mistake when adding my ridings, and the NDP should be at 40, and the tories at 126.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please note that I&#8217;ve made a very embarrassing mistake when adding my ridings, and the NDP should be at 40, and the tories at 126.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Morrow</title>
		<link>http://paulitics.wordpress.com/poll-index/2008-election-seat-projection/#comment-15218</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Morrow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 22:24:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paulitics.wordpress.com/?page_id=902#comment-15218</guid>
		<description>Note that the final DemocraticSPACE projections are:

CON 126
LIB 92
BQ 52
NDP 36
OTH 2
GRN 0

See &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.democraticspace.com/canada2008/2008/10/commentary-about-our-projections/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Commentary About Our Final Projections&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Note that the final DemocraticSPACE projections are:</p>
<p>CON 126<br />
LIB 92<br />
BQ 52<br />
NDP 36<br />
OTH 2<br />
GRN 0</p>
<p>See <a href="http://www.democraticspace.com/canada2008/2008/10/commentary-about-our-projections/" rel="nofollow">Commentary About Our Final Projections</a></p>
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		<title>By: Freddy Hutter</title>
		<link>http://paulitics.wordpress.com/poll-index/2008-election-seat-projection/#comment-15217</link>
		<dc:creator>Freddy Hutter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 19:27:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paulitics.wordpress.com/?page_id=902#comment-15217</guid>
		<description>As in 2004, 2006 &amp; 2007 (Ontario), we&#039;ve posted a Scoreboard to analyse tonite&#039;s results of the 15 seat projection models we&#039;ve been tracking.  Good luck to all...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As in 2004, 2006 &amp; 2007 (Ontario), we&#8217;ve posted a Scoreboard to analyse tonite&#8217;s results of the 15 seat projection models we&#8217;ve been tracking.  Good luck to all&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: marcel</title>
		<link>http://paulitics.wordpress.com/poll-index/2008-election-seat-projection/#comment-15214</link>
		<dc:creator>marcel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 02:02:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paulitics.wordpress.com/?page_id=902#comment-15214</guid>
		<description>The Cons are going to win!

My wife sees a silver lining in all this, the cons will accelerate civilization&#039;s decent to rock bottom, were people finally figure out that there is something wrong with this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Cons are going to win!</p>
<p>My wife sees a silver lining in all this, the cons will accelerate civilization&#8217;s decent to rock bottom, were people finally figure out that there is something wrong with this.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://paulitics.wordpress.com/poll-index/2008-election-seat-projection/#comment-15211</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 19:09:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paulitics.wordpress.com/?page_id=902#comment-15211</guid>
		<description>I just checked Nick Boragina&#039;s site (niXtuff) again, and he has kindly gone through and done the analysis I mentioned above comparing the predictions of the the three sites where they differ. 

Ridings they may all have wrong:

West Nova
Papineau
Ahuntsic
Edmonton Strathcona
Oakville
Vancouver Quadra

(I am sure there might be others)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just checked Nick Boragina&#8217;s site (niXtuff) again, and he has kindly gone through and done the analysis I mentioned above comparing the predictions of the the three sites where they differ. </p>
<p>Ridings they may all have wrong:</p>
<p>West Nova<br />
Papineau<br />
Ahuntsic<br />
Edmonton Strathcona<br />
Oakville<br />
Vancouver Quadra</p>
<p>(I am sure there might be others)</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://paulitics.wordpress.com/poll-index/2008-election-seat-projection/#comment-15210</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 19:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paulitics.wordpress.com/?page_id=902#comment-15210</guid>
		<description>The predictions by Election Prediction Project, Democratic Space, 
and niXtuff are all quite close. The first two have been, over the last two elections, closer than most official pundits.

Election prediction project:

125 CON
94  LIB
36 NDP
51 BLOC
2  IND

Compared to what I have said above, they seem to have gone largely with incumbents in the ridings that were still too close on Friday. 

Democratic Space, as of last night, had

128 CONS
92 LIB
34 NDP
52 BLOC
2 IND

niXtuff

124 CONS
88 LIBS
42 NDP
1 Green
2 IND
51 BLOC

- a bit more radical.  It might be fun to go through the three and look where they have made different calls, and at cases where all three might yet prove to be wrong (Edmonton Strathcona ?)

If any of the above scenarios is true, it is hard to see how Harper can convince the GG that parliament, which &quot;wasn&#039;t working&quot; enough to justify an election call in violation of his own fixed election date law, is now going to work any better.  No significant increase in seats, and possibly a drop in popular vote. No seats in PEI, NFLD, or (at least according to niXtuff) Nova Scotia. Perhaps fewer than 10 seats east of Ontario, and losses in Quebec.
Not much of a mandate, though still better than the other parties. 

I am stilling waiting for 1-2 % of the green vote to break for whichever party is most likely to beat the tories in several key ridings. My guess is 

CONS 123
LIBS  93
NDP   40
BLOC  50 
IND    2</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The predictions by Election Prediction Project, Democratic Space,<br />
and niXtuff are all quite close. The first two have been, over the last two elections, closer than most official pundits.</p>
<p>Election prediction project:</p>
<p>125 CON<br />
94  LIB<br />
36 NDP<br />
51 BLOC<br />
2  IND</p>
<p>Compared to what I have said above, they seem to have gone largely with incumbents in the ridings that were still too close on Friday. </p>
<p>Democratic Space, as of last night, had</p>
<p>128 CONS<br />
92 LIB<br />
34 NDP<br />
52 BLOC<br />
2 IND</p>
<p>niXtuff</p>
<p>124 CONS<br />
88 LIBS<br />
42 NDP<br />
1 Green<br />
2 IND<br />
51 BLOC</p>
<p>- a bit more radical.  It might be fun to go through the three and look where they have made different calls, and at cases where all three might yet prove to be wrong (Edmonton Strathcona ?)</p>
<p>If any of the above scenarios is true, it is hard to see how Harper can convince the GG that parliament, which &#8220;wasn&#8217;t working&#8221; enough to justify an election call in violation of his own fixed election date law, is now going to work any better.  No significant increase in seats, and possibly a drop in popular vote. No seats in PEI, NFLD, or (at least according to niXtuff) Nova Scotia. Perhaps fewer than 10 seats east of Ontario, and losses in Quebec.<br />
Not much of a mandate, though still better than the other parties. </p>
<p>I am stilling waiting for 1-2 % of the green vote to break for whichever party is most likely to beat the tories in several key ridings. My guess is </p>
<p>CONS 123<br />
LIBS  93<br />
NDP   40<br />
BLOC  50<br />
IND    2</p>
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		<title>By: Nick J Boragina</title>
		<link>http://paulitics.wordpress.com/poll-index/2008-election-seat-projection/#comment-15206</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick J Boragina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Oct 2008 21:23:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paulitics.wordpress.com/?page_id=902#comment-15206</guid>
		<description>niXtuff has it&#039;s final numbers up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>niXtuff has it&#8217;s final numbers up.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://paulitics.wordpress.com/poll-index/2008-election-seat-projection/#comment-15191</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 00:22:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paulitics.wordpress.com/?page_id=902#comment-15191</guid>
		<description>OK, I just did the analysis of the ones Democratic Space is calling too close (5  % or less difference according to his predictions as of today)

He has 54 ridings still in too close territory. 
20 in Ontario, 6 in Quebec, 10 in BC, 4 each in NB and NS, 3 in Sask,1 in AB, and 4 in MB, and 1 in PEI and 1 in NL.

His current call is for
128 CONS
91 LIBS
34 NDP
53 BLOC
2 IND

Of the 54 that are too close, he has called

CONS 18
LIBS 25
NDP  6
BLOC 4
IND 1

In addition to those he has predicted for each party, the realistic chances of winning &quot;too close&quot; seats currently given to another party are:

Green 1
CONS 24  for a maximum of 152
LIBS 16 for a max of 107 (same as my previous post !)
ND 18 for a maximum of 52
BLOC 2 for a Max of 55
IND 0 for a max of 2. 

Worst case scenario (lose all close seats) for each party:

CONS  110
LIBS   66
NDP    28
BLOC   49

MEDIAN PROJECTION (AVERAGE OF MAX AND MIN)

CONS 131
LIBS  92
NDP   40
BLOC  52
IND    2

(which doesn&#039;t add up to 308, but 317)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, I just did the analysis of the ones Democratic Space is calling too close (5  % or less difference according to his predictions as of today)</p>
<p>He has 54 ridings still in too close territory.<br />
20 in Ontario, 6 in Quebec, 10 in BC, 4 each in NB and NS, 3 in Sask,1 in AB, and 4 in MB, and 1 in PEI and 1 in NL.</p>
<p>His current call is for<br />
128 CONS<br />
91 LIBS<br />
34 NDP<br />
53 BLOC<br />
2 IND</p>
<p>Of the 54 that are too close, he has called</p>
<p>CONS 18<br />
LIBS 25<br />
NDP  6<br />
BLOC 4<br />
IND 1</p>
<p>In addition to those he has predicted for each party, the realistic chances of winning &#8220;too close&#8221; seats currently given to another party are:</p>
<p>Green 1<br />
CONS 24  for a maximum of 152<br />
LIBS 16 for a max of 107 (same as my previous post !)<br />
ND 18 for a maximum of 52<br />
BLOC 2 for a Max of 55<br />
IND 0 for a max of 2. </p>
<p>Worst case scenario (lose all close seats) for each party:</p>
<p>CONS  110<br />
LIBS   66<br />
NDP    28<br />
BLOC   49</p>
<p>MEDIAN PROJECTION (AVERAGE OF MAX AND MIN)</p>
<p>CONS 131<br />
LIBS  92<br />
NDP   40<br />
BLOC  52<br />
IND    2</p>
<p>(which doesn&#8217;t add up to 308, but 317)</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://paulitics.wordpress.com/poll-index/2008-election-seat-projection/#comment-15190</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 23:39:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paulitics.wordpress.com/?page_id=902#comment-15190</guid>
		<description>I just went through the Election predictions site (mentioned above) to look at how they were calling things. They have been about 90 % accurate over the last 3 elections using a riding by riding prediction model.

They are now down to 35 seats still labelled as too close to call (so about the number they usually get wrong; it was 30 last time and I imagine the majority were in that TCTC group).  Some they have already decided may still be in play though, like Edmonton Strathcona and Palliser.

Their current predictions

Cons 118
Libs 77
NDP 29
BLoc 47
Independent 2
TCTC 35

Of the 35 that are still too close, they are currently held by

LIBS 20 
CONS 7
NDP  5
BLOC 3

So if all parties hold their close seats, we would have:

CONS 125
LIBS 97
NDP 34
BLOC 50
IND 2

Who stands to gain those seats still called too close if they are not holds ?
Some are 3 way races, so these numbers won&#039;t add up.

CONS 19
LIBS 10
NDP 9
Bloc 2
Green 1

This would put an upper limit on each part of 

CONS 144  (hold all too close plus win 19)
LIBS 107
NDP 43 
BLOC 53
IND 2
Green 1

I might try this again with Democratic space&#039;s predictions, using all of his 
ridings still labelled too close.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just went through the Election predictions site (mentioned above) to look at how they were calling things. They have been about 90 % accurate over the last 3 elections using a riding by riding prediction model.</p>
<p>They are now down to 35 seats still labelled as too close to call (so about the number they usually get wrong; it was 30 last time and I imagine the majority were in that TCTC group).  Some they have already decided may still be in play though, like Edmonton Strathcona and Palliser.</p>
<p>Their current predictions</p>
<p>Cons 118<br />
Libs 77<br />
NDP 29<br />
BLoc 47<br />
Independent 2<br />
TCTC 35</p>
<p>Of the 35 that are still too close, they are currently held by</p>
<p>LIBS 20<br />
CONS 7<br />
NDP  5<br />
BLOC 3</p>
<p>So if all parties hold their close seats, we would have:</p>
<p>CONS 125<br />
LIBS 97<br />
NDP 34<br />
BLOC 50<br />
IND 2</p>
<p>Who stands to gain those seats still called too close if they are not holds ?<br />
Some are 3 way races, so these numbers won&#8217;t add up.</p>
<p>CONS 19<br />
LIBS 10<br />
NDP 9<br />
Bloc 2<br />
Green 1</p>
<p>This would put an upper limit on each part of </p>
<p>CONS 144  (hold all too close plus win 19)<br />
LIBS 107<br />
NDP 43<br />
BLOC 53<br />
IND 2<br />
Green 1</p>
<p>I might try this again with Democratic space&#8217;s predictions, using all of his<br />
ridings still labelled too close.</p>
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		<title>By: paulitics</title>
		<link>http://paulitics.wordpress.com/poll-index/2008-election-seat-projection/#comment-15189</link>
		<dc:creator>paulitics</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 20:12:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paulitics.wordpress.com/?page_id=902#comment-15189</guid>
		<description>Hi H. Moreton, the average in the H&amp;K number comes from averaged polls, not from averaged seat projections.  So the other seat projections have no bearing whatsoever on the H&amp;K projection. See note &quot;†&quot; for a more detailed explanation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi H. Moreton, the average in the H&amp;K number comes from averaged polls, not from averaged seat projections.  So the other seat projections have no bearing whatsoever on the H&amp;K projection. See note &#8220;†&#8221; for a more detailed explanation.</p>
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		<title>By: H. Moreton</title>
		<link>http://paulitics.wordpress.com/poll-index/2008-election-seat-projection/#comment-15187</link>
		<dc:creator>H. Moreton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2008 03:15:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paulitics.wordpress.com/?page_id=902#comment-15187</guid>
		<description>Exactly. There must be a higher and lower quote around an average. The average that is quoted for the Hill &amp; Knowlton number is lower than any other quote on your list. Where are the other lower quotes that make up the Hill &amp; Knowlton average number? The LISPOP, DemSpace, Trendlines, EKOS, Paulitics quoted on your list are all higher than the Hill &amp; Knowlton average.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exactly. There must be a higher and lower quote around an average. The average that is quoted for the Hill &amp; Knowlton number is lower than any other quote on your list. Where are the other lower quotes that make up the Hill &amp; Knowlton average number? The LISPOP, DemSpace, Trendlines, EKOS, Paulitics quoted on your list are all higher than the Hill &amp; Knowlton average.</p>
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		<title>By: paulitics</title>
		<link>http://paulitics.wordpress.com/poll-index/2008-election-seat-projection/#comment-15183</link>
		<dc:creator>paulitics</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 03:12:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paulitics.wordpress.com/?page_id=902#comment-15183</guid>
		<description>H. Moreton: every methodology is different and thus will generate different projections.  That said, however, I&#039;m not sure if I fully understand your question.

By definition, in any meta-analysis, there MUST be one measure that will have a higher projected seat total for each party than all other measures; and there MUST also be another measure that will have a lower projected seat total for each party than all other measures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>H. Moreton: every methodology is different and thus will generate different projections.  That said, however, I&#8217;m not sure if I fully understand your question.</p>
<p>By definition, in any meta-analysis, there MUST be one measure that will have a higher projected seat total for each party than all other measures; and there MUST also be another measure that will have a lower projected seat total for each party than all other measures.</p>
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		<title>By: H. Moreton</title>
		<link>http://paulitics.wordpress.com/poll-index/2008-election-seat-projection/#comment-15182</link>
		<dc:creator>H. Moreton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 02:36:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paulitics.wordpress.com/?page_id=902#comment-15182</guid>
		<description>How can the Hill &amp; Knowlton 5 poll avg be lower than any of the other quoted CPC seat totals?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How can the Hill &amp; Knowlton 5 poll avg be lower than any of the other quoted CPC seat totals?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: The Joys of FPP &#171; Food Fight In The War Room</title>
		<link>http://paulitics.wordpress.com/poll-index/2008-election-seat-projection/#comment-15180</link>
		<dc:creator>The Joys of FPP &#171; Food Fight In The War Room</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 23:56:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paulitics.wordpress.com/?page_id=902#comment-15180</guid>
		<description>[...] this web site: the Greens will win no seats while Bloc Quebecois will win 55 (other sites I checked out have this number lower). I&#8217;m not going to pretend to be knowledgeable at all - I know little [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] this web site: the Greens will win no seats while Bloc Quebecois will win 55 (other sites I checked out have this number lower). I&#8217;m not going to pretend to be knowledgeable at all &#8211; I know little [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jesse</title>
		<link>http://paulitics.wordpress.com/poll-index/2008-election-seat-projection/#comment-15178</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 17:58:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paulitics.wordpress.com/?page_id=902#comment-15178</guid>
		<description>UBC ESM&#039;s 2008 Election page: http://esm.ubc.ca/CA08/index.php

Seat predictions are toward the bottom of the page. Because of their methods, their prediction changes daily, occasionally drastically. The CPC, for instance, have lost 20+ seats in the prediction this morning compared to a prediction made just Monday.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>UBC ESM&#8217;s 2008 Election page: <a href="http://esm.ubc.ca/CA08/index.php" rel="nofollow">http://esm.ubc.ca/CA08/index.php</a></p>
<p>Seat predictions are toward the bottom of the page. Because of their methods, their prediction changes daily, occasionally drastically. The CPC, for instance, have lost 20+ seats in the prediction this morning compared to a prediction made just Monday.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: paulitics</title>
		<link>http://paulitics.wordpress.com/poll-index/2008-election-seat-projection/#comment-15175</link>
		<dc:creator>paulitics</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 11:13:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paulitics.wordpress.com/?page_id=902#comment-15175</guid>
		<description>Geoff, could you provide a link to the UBC election stock market?

I know that the UBC election forecaster is not included because they use the exact same methodology as the Paulitics geometric analysis.

As for your question about the Geometric analysis, you&#039;re absolutely right to point to potentially bizarre results of a Geeometric projection in ridings where any one given party is abnormally strong.

Because of this, it is sometimes possible for a Gemoetric riding-level projection to add up to more or less than 100%.  In these instances, however, determining which party is projected to win is, by definition, never a problem since one is always way above the others.  Thus I still go by whichever party has the highest vote projection.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Geoff, could you provide a link to the UBC election stock market?</p>
<p>I know that the UBC election forecaster is not included because they use the exact same methodology as the Paulitics geometric analysis.</p>
<p>As for your question about the Geometric analysis, you&#8217;re absolutely right to point to potentially bizarre results of a Geeometric projection in ridings where any one given party is abnormally strong.</p>
<p>Because of this, it is sometimes possible for a Gemoetric riding-level projection to add up to more or less than 100%.  In these instances, however, determining which party is projected to win is, by definition, never a problem since one is always way above the others.  Thus I still go by whichever party has the highest vote projection.</p>
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